A healthy guitar posture keeps our body aligned and comfortable and the guitar stable with minimal effort from our arms and hands. There are lots of ways to achieve a healthy sitting position. It depends a lot on your body, comfort, and preferences. It can also depend on the chair you're using! It's normal to feel awkward with the instrument at first. Finding your ideal position takes time and experimentation.
Some guitarists find a comfortable sitting position simply by elevating one leg -- either by crossing their legs at the knee, or bending one leg so that the ankle rests on the other. That keeps the guitar from sliding down. The downside is that playing with your legs crossed isn't usually comfortable for long stretches. It's distracting if your foot falls asleep every time you play!
Other guitarists often find the balance they need by playing with a strap. Straps help the most with steel-string acoustic and electric guitarists. They're not the best option for classical or flamenco, as our ideal hand position is usually more specific than a strap allows us to control.
For classical and flamenco guitarist students, I recommend either a footstool or a guitar support.
Footstool - this is a basic and inexpensive piece of equipment (around $10) that all guitar stores carry. You can adjust the height to meet your needs, and most fold up conveniently so that you can slip it in your case and take it with you. Depending on the style of guitar you play, you'll want to position it under your left leg (classical) or right (more common for flamenco)
Guitar Support - if you have any sort of back trouble, or if you play guitar for many hours a day, you might prefer to keep both feet flat on the ground. Guitar supports attach to the bottom edge of the guitar by suction, magnets, or a gentle clamp. The support sits on one leg (left or right, again, depending on if you play classical or flamenco) and elevates the guitar for you. That keeps your posture more natural.
The two supports I've used are the ErgoPlay support, which works on suction, and the Barnet Guitar Support, which uses magnets. (Note - I included links, but both come in a few different sizes and variations, so research a bit further if your thinking about buying one!). I liked both supports as far as the position they allowed, but prefer the Barnett one - it feels more stable. Plus, the suction cups of the ErgoPlay aren't compatible with all finishes.
What guitar supports or posture aids have you tried? Have you tried any you didn't like? What are your favorites and why?
I have always used a footstool and recently started looking into the guitar support. I had a waterskiing accident a few years ago and periodically the hip I injured will bother me while using a footstool. I’m not sure if the support will make a difference. Any thoughts? Also, I’m not sure want something attached to my guitar.
Hi Teri, my thoughts are that your situation sounds exactly like the sort of situation where a support would make a difference... I don't know too much about hip injuries, but a support would make it so that you could keep both your feet flat on the ground. Actually, what made me get a guitar support in the first place (six year ago) was hurting my back horse-riding. While I was getting over it, keeping one leg elevated for an extended period of time was uncomfortable. But I ended up liking the support so much that I kept using it after I healed, and still prefer it to footstools or leg-crossing.
That said, it's true that the switch did feel a bit weird at first. Like any posture or positioning change, you have to give it a chance. At first I felt a little out of touch with the guitar itself because it was 'floating' rather than resting on my leg, so it felt a bit unstable. But I got used to it. I'd say give it a month or so of experimenting before you decide that it's really not for you. The big downside of this is that supports are much more expensive than footstools ($40-80, as compared to around $10). I don't know a way around that risk, unless you're lucky enough to have a friend who can let you borrow their guitar support for a while, or you find a store with a generous exchange policy.
Are you worried about the finish of your guitar? Is that why you're not sure about wanting something attached? The safest support with regards to the finish is the magnetic guitar support. You have to install semi-permanent magnets on the inside of the guitar, but you can remove them later. The external magnets of the support are attracted strongly to the internal ones, but they're protected with soft cork pads. Suction cups and clamps CAN be used safely on guitar finishes, but you have to be more careful and know more about the finish to be sure.
I started to play CG later in life. Other than less flexible body, I have short fingers and thick finger tips. It is always a challenge to keep the finger(s) from touching the adjacent strings. To overcome this problem, I have tried to slant the neck closer to my left shoulder, tilt the guitar more and/or curl left hand more to allow a vertical finger touch on strings. While these measures did help in some occasions, however it also created additional tension, particularly to pull in the left hand more also prevent my wrist from staying flat creating pain. Sometimes it is impossible to get clear tones. Anyone else has the similar issue? Like to learn your experience. Thanks for reading.
This is a great question Frank, and a really common issue. I don't have these types of hands at all, and so can only guess when trying to solve these issues with students. I'm hoping some students/teachers with similar hands and experiences will jump in here : )
Hi Frank:
I just posted Small Hands, Stubby Fingers, Arthritis, and More.
I experience very similar problems and have been able to find some solutions. I have had string buzz, muffling, strings touching my fingernails, etc
I will prepare a detailed list of things you might try.
Good information about footstools and supports. I use both and sometimes it feels as if the neck is angled too high. I'm going to try using the support with my feet on the floor. Also, the Gitano support is good, but the suction cups don't always stay on (despite how expensive the support is). I'm going to try the Barnet to see if magnets work better. Thanks, as always, Leah!
DEFYING DIFFICULT AND DISORDERLY DIGITS
There is nothing more frustrating, defeating, debilitating, and demoralizing then having clunky fingers when playing the guitar much less dealing with the pending disaster of fretting fingers bumping into each other, touching additional strings, muting and touching strings adjacent to the one your finger or fingers are placed upon, and maybe even the rarest of rare circumstances I have had, getting my fretting fingers caught in between strings! Well, maybe there is something worse then the above and it will be my next challenge. With clunky fingers, there are days I have no idea what to expect. In just a few seconds, learning guitar and just playing can go from exilerating to humbling, being expert to novice, champion to loser, and vice versa. While my sample size is limited, even the most accomplished guitarists have more horror stories than would be expected.
There are several Player Centric approaches I have found. The truth is I have tried them all and over time found my “happy spot” with them all. There are several where a forwarded diagram will be helpful until I can resolve the uploading of the diagram to the blog. Try one thing at a time and it could take several days to begin to see results and/or where appropriate find your “sweet spot.” Yes, I have a bad day and have to return to my check list.
Guitar Centric approaches will cost you money and in most cases only require a good set up which in the Chicagoland area ranges from $50 to $65 plus strings at a reputable luthier; this is not a “technician” at your local big box guitar store! Some “adjustments/repairs” are much more expensive. Of course, there is the choice of getting another guitar which might even be less money. The extreme is having a guitar built to your personal specifications and needs; anything under $5000 would be a miracle. However, there are several manufacturers of “off the shelf guitars” who have a variety of nut widths and scale lengths as detailed below, but you will most likely still need to have a professional set up. I plan on doing more detailed entries of some of these points.
Player Centric Strategies
1. Finger nails: Whenever the problem reoccurs for me, I simply cut my fretting hand nails as short as possible. It is amazing. When my nails are the least bit too long, literally a millimeter, the nails touch the fret board and my fingers start tilting and getting out of alignment and/or proper curling. My nails grow slowly and I must cut them at least once every 2 weeks. I do some filing in-between using cheap emory boards, a nail file, and certain grades of sandpaper. Parenthetically, I have psoriatic arthritis and associated brittle nails; thus, I can have half a nail break and on my fretting fingers, this will also change my tilt and/or can get caught by an adjacent string. Again, this is my first line of defense and at least once a week, my fingers start missing the targets and touching adjacent strings. On occasion I use a nail hardener from a well known mall beauty supply especailly when I do some gardening or other activity that uses my hands. I also will wear work gloves to protect my hands and nails. In ways, given my level of musicianship, it reminds me of the days when professionals would insure there hands.
2. Feet placement/Posture: With the qualification, I am addressing right hand picking and left hand fretting, most orthodox classical guitarists use a foot stool under their left foot and have their right foot closer to their body (see diagram). Fingerstyle guitarists do whatever works for themselves. Most orthodox flamenco guitarists either use a foot stool under their right foot or cross their right leg over their left leg and seemingly have part of the guitar under their right arm pit. I have experimented with them all, and use a hybrid approach, right foot on a foot stool and left foot closer to my body. (see diagrams). Ultimately, such placement will have an effect on your hand height, position, and how your fingers curl and anchor on the fret board. Sorry, this is all trial and error.
3. Angles: This is in conjunction with feet placement and posture (see diagrams).
A. Angle relative to the ground. Orthodox classical guitar neck would be at about a 45 angle to the ground with the head stock at about eye level. Personally, I am at about a 30 degree level; lower does not work at all. Frank it seems you have tried variations of this.
B. Body Tilt: I don’t think there is a standard position per se. For me, it is the point where the guitar touches my leg, chest, arm, and where I can actually feel the back of the guitar vibrate and I don’t need my left hand to hold or anchor the guitar. Frank it seems you have tried variations of this.
C. Angle away from the body. For me the head stock of the guitar is farther away from the left side of my body; the right side being the farthest away is frowned upon, and parallel makes me twisted like a pretzel. The position I use, has magically put my left hands and fingers into the proper position to avoid bumping fingers and overlapping strings. Just a slight, even accidental change, can effect my finger placement.
4. Warn water or warm towel: Before playing, I often will do one of the other for no more than 30 seconds, but have to avoid contact with my finger nails to avoid softening. This seems to increase the flexibility and stretching distance of my fingers.
5. Hand washing and hand antiperspirants: As stated I have psoriatic arthritis and thus my hands and fingertips can get quite greasy. On the fretting hand, this adds grease and grime to the strings and increases slippage and vertical movement on the fret board. I was my hands frequently. I also found a antiperspirant lotion for the hands which keeps my hands and fingers dry for hours. It is a bit expensive, but for me it works. My finger tips stay very dry and will not move!
6. String cleaning: There are several commercial products made out of alcohol and other substances to clean strings. There is one I found, but hard to get, which uses individual gauze like pads that clean and put a protestant on the string. It is very expensive. For the most part, I use a blue microfiber cloth and quickly run it over the top of the strings and in-between the strings and fret board before and after I play. This virtually eliminates any gunk, grease, grime, etc. which results in unneeded string movements on the fingerboard. Simply, if it is harder for the string to move up or down rather than perpendicular to the fret board when I play, the point where I press the strings down is where the strings stay in place.
7. Practice with light pressure: Leah gets the credit here. With the fretting fingers place them lightly on the strings at the frets. This will create a muting sound. This helps in learning finger placement and position as you learn to use the least amount of pressure and literally have no tension. This is far from easy. Over time, you should be able to gain the needed finger control and stay in proper position. At some point, you can start increasing pressure with the finger tip location just behind he fret. Keep increasing the pressure until just the point you get a clear note.
8. Finger placement and position: There are many times when more than one finger is used on the fretting hand. For example, the E or Fm formation which is the same but on different fingers. Best practice would be all three fingers employed would be as close as possible to the fret. This is almost physically impossible. Accept the situation, the fingers will have to be spread out and may overlap a bit, but will be more so in a sequence. Please see the diagram. It is best to always have the fingers tips on the string and fingers being as close as possible to perpendicular to the stings. In reality, there is a certain amount of margin of error; there maybe person specific situations, where an orthodox position is required. For example, on string 1, I am much less arched and perpendicular and on string 6, I am more arched than normal and certainly not perpendicular.
9. Finger stretching and flexibility exercises: These are paradoxically brutal and wonderful. For now, I will pass on this subject. Try all of the above first.
10. Exercises and songs: What I have is only in TAB and for the most part can be memorized reasonably quickly. You want to be able to watch your fingers as you practice. While they emphasize some right hand techniques, they are far from easy and can actually in the early going being near impossible, but did help me with the my problems. To the extent, I still do them almost daily. They are not easy and for the purposes here, please do not even think about tempo, rhythm, etc..this is just a way to work on proper finger positioning without the exercises being too blah and boring even if it is progressing only one note or measure at a time (see sheet music handouts). For the future, I will update the actual original sources.
A. Trio. This is more tricky than hard, but far from easy.
B. Ring Finger Independence. In addition I do, P I M I, and P M A M. This is very hard.
C. Like Dreaming, (William Beauvais, Royal Conservatory of Music), actually has 2 parts for a duet. This will surely test your fortitude and spirit!
D. Ode to Joy.
Guitar Centric Strategies
1. Strings: Little did I realize there were so many different manufactures, weights, tensions, gauges, materials, etc. The lighter the gauge of strings the easier they will bend. A light gauge of one manufacturer may not be the same as the light gauge of another manufacturer. Then comes the complicating factor of tension usually measured in pounds. Personally, with steel strings, I use 11 gauge and the lowest possible tension 118 pounds. Anything greater than this, I can’t move the strings. The offset is the lighter the tension and gauge, the more tinny the sound is and with less volume. Nylon strings are usually hard tension or regular tension. Hard tension are much firmer and the offset is the strings don’t move as much; thus, reducing movement that results in touching of adjacent strings. The tensions seem to vary among manufacturers, but hard tensions are about 90 pounds. 13 gauge acoustic steel strings can be as high as 170 pounds of tension. Some manufacturers even have multiple levels of tension. String tension is determined by vibrating length, mass, and pitch. The string diameter (gauge) alone does not determine a string’s tension. By using different raw materials (nickelplated steel, nylon, phosphor bronze, etc.) or by varying the ratio between the core and the wrap wire, two strings with the same diameter, tuned to the same pitch, could have two different tensions. The trade off is lower tension is easier to play, but will be more likely to move with the fingers touching adjacent strings and vice versa. Weather considerations: Humidity and temperature seem to effect how much strings flex; thus, they can either become flat or sharp. Even if I do perfect temperature control and never move the guitars out of their space, the strings will be softer or stiffer on any particular day with a resultant effect on my fingers and how much they move.
2. Action: This is the distance between the top of the fret and the bottom of the strings at the 12th fret. Also the first fret is often considered. A nylon string guitar is usually set at 4.0 mm on string 6 and 3.0 mm on string 1 both at the 12th fret. The lowest they can be set without getting excessive buzz is 3.8 mm and 2.8 mm respectively; the highest string should be set is 4.2 mm and 3.2 mm respectively. Steel string acoustic and electric guitars can be set lower. The higher the action, the more difficult the guitar is to play and the more likely left fingers will at some point rub against adjoining strings. To measure action at the first fret you can use a .7mm guitar pick or a dime between the string and the fret. It should be very snug, firm, and may even bulge a bit.
3. Scale length and the magical measurement: Scale length is determined at the point of assembly and can not be altered. This is the distance between the nut and the bridge/saddle (see diagram) or twice the distance between the nut and the 12th fret. Acoustic steel string guitars usually are between 630 and 650mm. Classical and flamenco guitar are usually 650mm or longer. The important point is scale length determines and effects the distances between frets. The longer the scale length the more the distance between the frets. The first three frets are very important. The difference between 650 and 640mm is approximately 1.6 mm which is about .07 of an inch. This doesn’t seem like much, but in fret board land, this is like miles. 650 to 630 is about 3.0 mm. Regardless of scale length, the distance between frets becomes smaller the closer you get to the guitar body. The Magical Measurement: this is a good but not absolute guide. It is a guide line. Measure the distance between the tip of your left thumb, the fret board side thumb, and the tip of your pinky. Do this with a comfortable stretch. If the measurement is 9 inches or greater, a 650mm is probably the best suited. If the measurement is 8 to 9 inches, 640mm is probably the best. If the measurement is 7 to 8 inches, 630mm is probably the best. If the measurement is 6 to 7 inches, 615mm is best. Over the past 4 years, my stretch has surprisingly increased from 8 to 8 and a half inches. I can use a 650mm if the nut width, an interactive factor, is narrow enough. However, I am most comfortable with my 630mm guitars. This brings us to the next topics. Warning: you do not need to measure guitar scale lengths. It is standard for the manufacturer to have this information on their web site; retail sites may not be accurate.
4. Nut width, bridge and saddle measurements and the distance between the 1st and 6th string: Nut width is the measurement for the width of the fret board. Classical and flamenco guitar are minimally 50mm or more wide. Steel string acoustic guitars and nylon crossover, fusion, or hybrids are usually no more than 48mm and usually much less and usually between 42.86 and 44.45. I have all three of the latter widths and you would think there is not much difference. As said before, in fret board land, this is the equivalent in miles deep of a cavern. Also, this distance widens about 10mm as you move closer to the guitar body. Paradoxically, the wider the nut, the easier it is to keep the fingers apart and the fingers from touching adjacent strings; however, you have to stretch the fingers farther. This requires a delicate balance. There are complicating factors. This is just the size of the fret board, but another consideration is the distance between strings 1 and 6 which is measured from the center of each string; thus, do not assume, all 50mm nut widths have the same distance between the strings. Usually, though, you can deduct about 2 mm on each side. At the bridge and saddle, the distance between the strings is the farthest apart and the employed scale length can have an effect on this. Warning: you do not need to these measurements. It is standard for the manufacturer to have this information on their web site; retail sites may not be accurate.
5. Fret board radius and material: Radiused fret boards have various curvatures expressed in degrees and are most commonly used on steel string acoustic and electric guitars. Classical and flamenco guitars have flat fret boards. This is a matter of preference, but on radiused fret boards the strings can move around a bit more when your left fingers are placed on them. The two most frequently used fret board materials are ebony and rosewood. Personally, I find ebony more slick, smooth, and slippery; thus, my fingers do not anchor as firmly. I think it would be possible to change fret board materials on a guitar but putting on a new fret board is very expensive.
6. Fret height and width: Simply, the height and width of frets can change how well your fingers will anchor against the string and fret board and in many cases effect tone and clarity. Also, low frets can be the sign of wear. Re fretting can be very expensive. There is something called fret leveling/fret dressing which is reasonably priced. If all the frets are not at the same level, it can create problems. There may be valleys and peaks and you can have string slippage.
7. Neck profile and thickness: Profiles are C shape, D shape, crossover/fusion shape, low profile, classical guitar shape, acoustic guitar shape, electric guitar shape, etc. This relates to the shape of the neck from the fret board to the area of the left palm and thumb. I like a C shape; the contours best fit my hands. A classical guitar shape is for me like holding the head of baseball bat...it is just too big and cumbersome. Thickness is measured in mm at the 1st and 9th fret. The thinnest is usually about 21 mm at the 1st and 24mm at the 9th fret. The thinner the neck, the easier it is to extend fingers around an upon the fret board. This can not be altered on a guitar; well...it would be easier to get another guitar; thus, find what works best for you.
7A. The above seven factors work interactively and synergistically. That is, the sum of the any 2 or more of he above parts is actually greater than the sum of the individual parts. A larger nut width creates a greater distance between the 1st and 6th strings as does a longer scale length. Put the two together and for some this may not be fond memories of high school geometry, but the resultant distance of the hypotenuse of the created triangle becomes largest. Simply, the distance from fret 1 sting 1 and string 6 fret 3 (think G7) becomes even longer and is a harder stretch.
8. Foot stools and guitar supports: This can effect angle, tilt, etc as above, but more importantly, it can change the actual height of the guitar from the floor. I find the higher the guitar rests, the more flexibility I have in my left wrist and it is easier to get the proper touching of the left finger tips against the strings and fret board and a very secure anchoring. For me, the most workable height of the foot stool adjustment took quite a bit of time.
Conclusion:
There are many Player Centric strategies to deal with your resistant digits. It takes much patience and persistence to get unruly fingers under control, but can be done. Guitar Centric strategies can be done with a good set up, but most can only be handled at time of guitar selection. The above is a lot to understand and digest. I learned it out of necessity and I have often said, “It is easier just to put the guitar back in the case and in the closet.” Given my stories below, it is easy to understand why no one has offered me a job selling guitars.. I wouldn’t be taking the approach of closing my eyes and saying this guitar is perfect for you or your child.
Case in point, I was looking at nylon strings at a well known big box guitar store. The sales person came to ask me how it felt. I said, “The nut width is to wide, and the scale length probably was too long, and the neck profile terrible.” He did not know I had a mm measure, but said to me, “Well let me have our tech look at in and see what he can do.” I politely said, “No thanks, he would need to get out a saw, chisel, and some sand paper to handle this.” He looked at me. He had no idea of what I was talking about and I am saying to myself, “And you are selling guitars!!??”
It is not necessary to know all this information as I do, but it is important to refer to it when buying an instrument. This reminds me of the story of the carpenter who no matter how many times he cut the board, it was never long enough. You wouldn’t buy shoes that were the wrong size especially if you have medical condition with your feet. Some guitar adjustments can be made after the fact, sometimes you can over time adjust to the dimensions of the guitar, but at least next time, take your time before selecting a guitar and spending your hard earned money. Much like trying out shoes in the store, it is hard to absolutely know how well they fit in a few minutes: the same is true for guitars.
A no pun intended Final Note:
Regardless of what any sales person tells you, never, ever, assume you can open the box, take the guitar out of the gig bag or case, and it is ready to play and needs no adjustments or has optimal playability for you rather than some hypothetical person with the one qualification if the instrument comes from a well known and reputable manufacturer or luthier. I know of situations where even after the fact, the retailer will make additional adjustments at no cost.
If you ever go into a guitar store and the sales person is pressuring you, trying to tell you how the guitar is perfect for your eye color, etc..and they do!!...Just start asking questions about the ratio of the tuners, the type of bracing, if the wood is hard or laminate, the thickness and material of the truss rod, the details of the warranty. You don’t have to know the answers; they are supposed to be the experts. I also do some name dropping of some of the “unknown) guitarists who worked with high profile musicians (e.g., Laurence Juber who was lead to Paul Mc Cartney, John Knowles who for 28 years did arrangements, transcriptions, etc. for Chet Atkins) and I have attended their guitar workshops and they have allowed me to play their very expensive made to order signature guitars. Personally, at this point, I think all the Chicagoland retailers have my mug shot by the cash register; they do not want to deal with me. The funniest time was when the sales person asked me to inspect his hands and wanted advice from me!
Be prepared, this is a never ending journey. Even the most accomplished and famous guitarists continually try different strings, set ups, guitar specifications and adjustments, picks, etc. Everyone seemingly is experimenting with different hand, finger, and hand positions. Sooner or later, you will find playing guitar is not static. That is, from day to day the strings change flexibility, hands and fingers are more or less fluid, environment acoustics change, etc. Everyone is looking for the perfect sound, tone, playability, and how and where even perfect fingers land, and you have willing joined the same club.
DEFYING DIFFICULT AND DISORDERLY DIGITS
There is nothing more frustrating, defeating, debilitating, and demoralizing then having clunky fingers when playing the guitar much less dealing with the pending disaster of fretting fingers bumping into each other, touching additional strings, muting and touching strings adjacent to the one your finger or fingers are placed upon, and maybe even the rarest of rare circumstances I have had, getting my fretting fingers caught in between strings! Well, maybe there is something worse then the above and it will be my next challenge. With clunky fingers, there are days I have no idea what to expect. In just a few seconds, learning guitar and just playing can go from exilerating to humbling, being expert to novice, champion to loser, and vice versa. While my sample size is limited, even the most accomplished guitarists have more horror stories than would be expected.
There are several Player Centric approaches I have found. The truth is I have tried them all and over time found my “happy spot” with them all. There are several where a forwarded diagram will be helpful until I can resolve the uploading of the diagram to the blog. Try one thing at a time and it could take several days to begin to see results and/or where appropriate find your “sweet spot.” Yes, I have a bad day and have to return to my check list.
Guitar Centric approaches will cost you money and in most cases only require a good set up which in the Chicagoland area ranges from $50 to $65 plus strings at a reputable luthier; this is not a “technician” at your local big box guitar store! Some “adjustments/repairs” are much more expensive. Of course, there is the choice of getting another guitar which might even be less money. The extreme is having a guitar built to your personal specifications and needs; anything under $5000 would be a miracle. However, there are several manufacturers of “off the shelf guitars” who have a variety of nut widths and scale lengths as detailed below, but you will most likely still need to have a professional set up. I plan on doing more detailed entries of some of these points.
Player Centric Strategies
1. Finger nails: Whenever the problem reoccurs for me, I simply cut my fretting hand nails as short as possible. It is amazing. When my nails are the least bit too long, literally a millimeter, the nails touch the fret board and my fingers start tilting and getting out of alignment and/or proper curling. My nails grow slowly and I must cut them at least once every 2 weeks. I do some filing in-between using cheap emory boards, a nail file, and certain grades of sandpaper. Parenthetically, I have psoriatic arthritis and associated brittle nails; thus, I can have half a nail break and on my fretting fingers, this will also change my tilt and/or can get caught by an adjacent string. Again, this is my first line of defense and at least once a week, my fingers start missing the targets and touching adjacent strings. On occasion I use a nail hardener from a well known mall beauty supply especailly when I do some gardening or other activity that uses my hands. I also will wear work gloves to protect my hands and nails. In ways, given my level of musicianship, it reminds me of the days when professionals would insure there hands.
2. Feet placement/Posture: With the qualification, I am addressing right hand picking and left hand fretting, most orthodox classical guitarists use a foot stool under their left foot and have their right foot closer to their body (see diagram). Fingerstyle guitarists do whatever works for themselves. Most orthodox flamenco guitarists either use a foot stool under their right foot or cross their right leg over their left leg and seemingly have part of the guitar under their right arm pit. I have experimented with them all, and use a hybrid approach, right foot on a foot stool and left foot closer to my body. (see diagrams). Ultimately, such placement will have an effect on your hand height, position, and how your fingers curl and anchor on the fret board. Sorry, this is all trial and error.
3. Angles: This is in conjunction with feet placement and posture (see diagrams).
A. Angle relative to the ground. Orthodox classical guitar neck would be at about a 45 angle to the ground with the head stock at about eye level. Personally, I am at about a 30 degree level; lower does not work at all. Frank it seems you have tried variations of this.
B. Body Tilt: I don’t think there is a standard position per se. For me, it is the point where the guitar touches my leg, chest, arm, and where I can actually feel the back of the guitar vibrate and I don’t need my left hand to hold or anchor the guitar. Frank it seems you have tried variations of this.
C. Angle away from the body. For me the head stock of the guitar is farther away from the left side of my body; the right side being the farthest away is frowned upon, and parallel makes me twisted like a pretzel. The position I use, has magically put my left hands and fingers into the proper position to avoid bumping fingers and overlapping strings. Just a slight, even accidental change, can effect my finger placement.
4. Warn water or warm towel: Before playing, I often will do one of the other for no more than 30 seconds, but have to avoid contact with my finger nails to avoid softening. This seems to increase the flexibility and stretching distance of my fingers.
5. Hand washing and hand antiperspirants: As stated I have psoriatic arthritis and thus my hands and fingertips can get quite greasy. On the fretting hand, this adds grease and grime to the strings and increases slippage and vertical movement on the fret board. I was my hands frequently. I also found a antiperspirant lotion for the hands which keeps my hands and fingers dry for hours. It is a bit expensive, but for me it works. My finger tips stay very dry and will not move!
6. String cleaning: There are several commercial products made out of alcohol and other substances to clean strings. There is one I found, but hard to get, which uses individual gauze like pads that clean and put a protestant on the string. It is very expensive. For the most part, I use a blue microfiber cloth and quickly run it over the top of the strings and in-between the strings and fret board before and after I play. This virtually eliminates any gunk, grease, grime, etc. which results in unneeded string movements on the fingerboard. Simply, if it is harder for the string to move up or down rather than perpendicular to the fret board when I play, the point where I press the strings down is where the strings stay in place.
7. Practice with light pressure: Leah gets the credit here. With the fretting fingers place them lightly on the strings at the frets. This will create a muting sound. This helps in learning finger placement and position as you learn to use the least amount of pressure and literally have no tension. This is far from easy. Over time, you should be able to gain the needed finger control and stay in proper position. At some point, you can start increasing pressure with the finger tip location just behind he fret. Keep increasing the pressure until just the point you get a clear note.
8. Finger placement and position: There are many times when more than one finger is used on the fretting hand. For example, the E or Fm formation which is the same but on different fingers. Best practice would be all three fingers employed would be as close as possible to the fret. This is almost physically impossible. Accept the situation, the fingers will have to be spread out and may overlap a bit, but will be more so in a sequence. Please see the diagram. It is best to always have the fingers tips on the string and fingers being as close as possible to perpendicular to the stings. In reality, there is a certain amount of margin of error; there maybe person specific situations, where an orthodox position is required. For example, on string 1, I am much less arched and perpendicular and on string 6, I am more arched than normal and certainly not perpendicular.
9. Finger stretching and flexibility exercises: These are paradoxically brutal and wonderful. For now, I will pass on this subject. Try all of the above first.
10. Exercises and songs: What I have is only in TAB and for the most part can be memorized reasonably quickly. You want to be able to watch your fingers as you practice. While they emphasize some right hand techniques, they are far from easy and can actually in the early going being near impossible, but did help me with the my problems. To the extent, I still do them almost daily. They are not easy and for the purposes here, please do not even think about tempo, rhythm, etc..this is just a way to work on proper finger positioning without the exercises being too blah and boring even if it is progressing only one note or measure at a time (see sheet music handouts). For the future, I will update the actual original sources.
A. Trio. This is more tricky than hard, but far from easy.
B. Ring Finger Independence. In addition I do, P I M I, and P M A M. This is very hard.
C. Like Dreaming, (William Beauvais, Royal Conservatory of Music), actually has 2 parts for a duet. This will surely test your fortitude and spirit!
D. Ode to Joy.
Guitar Centric Strategies
1. Strings: Little did I realize there were so many different manufactures, weights, tensions, gauges, materials, etc. The lighter the gauge of strings the easier they will bend. A light gauge of one manufacturer may not be the same as the light gauge of another manufacturer. Then comes the complicating factor of tension usually measured in pounds. Personally, with steel strings, I use 11 gauge and the lowest possible tension 118 pounds. Anything greater than this, I can’t move the strings. The offset is the lighter the tension and gauge, the more tinny the sound is and with less volume. Nylon strings are usually hard tension or regular tension. Hard tension are much firmer and the offset is the strings don’t move as much; thus, reducing movement that results in touching of adjacent strings. The tensions seem to vary among manufacturers, but hard tensions are about 90 pounds. 13 gauge acoustic steel strings can be as high as 170 pounds of tension. Some manufacturers even have multiple levels of tension. String tension is determined by vibrating length, mass, and pitch. The string diameter (gauge) alone does not determine a string’s tension. By using different raw materials (nickelplated steel, nylon, phosphor bronze, etc.) or by varying the ratio between the core and the wrap wire, two strings with the same diameter, tuned to the same pitch, could have two different tensions. The trade off is lower tension is easier to play, but will be more likely to move with the fingers touching adjacent strings and vice versa. Weather considerations: Humidity and temperature seem to effect how much strings flex; thus, they can either become flat or sharp. Even if I do perfect temperature control and never move the guitars out of their space, the strings will be softer or stiffer on any particular day with a resultant effect on my fingers and how much they move.
2. Action: This is the distance between the top of the fret and the bottom of the strings at the 12th fret. Also the first fret is often considered. A nylon string guitar is usually set at 4.0 mm on string 6 and 3.0 mm on string 1 both at the 12th fret. The lowest they can be set without getting excessive buzz is 3.8 mm and 2.8 mm respectively; the highest string should be set is 4.2 mm and 3.2 mm respectively. Steel string acoustic and electric guitars can be set lower. The higher the action, the more difficult the guitar is to play and the more likely left fingers will at some point rub against adjoining strings. To measure action at the first fret you can use a .7mm guitar pick or a dime between the string and the fret. It should be very snug, firm, and may even bulge a bit.
3. Scale length and the magical measurement: Scale length is determined at the point of assembly and can not be altered. This is the distance between the nut and the bridge/saddle (see diagram) or twice the distance between the nut and the 12th fret. Acoustic steel string guitars usually are between 630 and 650mm. Classical and flamenco guitar are usually 650mm or longer. The important point is scale length determines and effects the distances between frets. The longer the scale length the more the distance between the frets. The first three frets are very important. The difference between 650 and 640mm is approximately 1.6 mm which is about .07 of an inch. This doesn’t seem like much, but in fret board land, this is like miles. 650 to 630 is about 3.0 mm. Regardless of scale length, the distance between frets becomes smaller the closer you get to the guitar body. The Magical Measurement: this is a good but not absolute guide. It is a guide line. Measure the distance between the tip of your left thumb, the fret board side thumb, and the tip of your pinky. Do this with a comfortable stretch. If the measurement is 9 inches or greater, a 650mm is probably the best suited. If the measurement is 8 to 9 inches, 640mm is probably the best. If the measurement is 7 to 8 inches, 630mm is probably the best. If the measurement is 6 to 7 inches, 615mm is best. Over the past 4 years, my stretch has surprisingly increased from 8 to 8 and a half inches. I can use a 650mm if the nut width, an interactive factor, is narrow enough. However, I am most comfortable with my 630mm guitars. This brings us to the next topics. Warning: you do not need to measure guitar scale lengths. It is standard for the manufacturer to have this information on their web site; retail sites may not be accurate.
4. Nut width, bridge and saddle measurements and the distance between the 1st and 6th string: Nut width is the measurement for the width of the fret board. Classical and flamenco guitar are minimally 50mm or more wide. Steel string acoustic guitars and nylon crossover, fusion, or hybrids are usually no more than 48mm and usually much less and usually between 42.86 and 44.45. I have all three of the latter widths and you would think there is not much difference. As said before, in fret board land, this is the equivalent in miles deep of a cavern. Also, this distance widens about 10mm as you move closer to the guitar body. Paradoxically, the wider the nut, the easier it is to keep the fingers apart and the fingers from touching adjacent strings; however, you have to stretch the fingers farther. This requires a delicate balance. There are complicating factors. This is just the size of the fret board, but another consideration is the distance between strings 1 and 6 which is measured from the center of each string; thus, do not assume, all 50mm nut widths have the same distance between the strings. Usually, though, you can deduct about 2 mm on each side. At the bridge and saddle, the distance between the strings is the farthest apart and the employed scale length can have an effect on this. Warning: you do not need to these measurements. It is standard for the manufacturer to have this information on their web site; retail sites may not be accurate.
5. Fret board radius and material: Radiused fret boards have various curvatures expressed in degrees and are most commonly used on steel string acoustic and electric guitars. Classical and flamenco guitars have flat fret boards. This is a matter of preference, but on radiused fret boards the strings can move around a bit more when your left fingers are placed on them. The two most frequently used fret board materials are ebony and rosewood. Personally, I find ebony more slick, smooth, and slippery; thus, my fingers do not anchor as firmly. I think it would be possible to change fret board materials on a guitar but putting on a new fret board is very expensive.
6. Fret height and width: Simply, the height and width of frets can change how well your fingers will anchor against the string and fret board and in many cases effect tone and clarity. Also, low frets can be the sign of wear. Re fretting can be very expensive. There is something called fret leveling/fret dressing which is reasonably priced. If all the frets are not at the same level, it can create problems. There may be valleys and peaks and you can have string slippage.
7. Neck profile and thickness: Profiles are C shape, D shape, crossover/fusion shape, low profile, classical guitar shape, acoustic guitar shape, electric guitar shape, etc. This relates to the shape of the neck from the fret board to the area of the left palm and thumb. I like a C shape; the contours best fit my hands. A classical guitar shape is for me like holding the head of baseball bat...it is just too big and cumbersome. Thickness is measured in mm at the 1st and 9th fret. The thinnest is usually about 21 mm at the 1st and 24mm at the 9th fret. The thinner the neck, the easier it is to extend fingers around an upon the fret board. This can not be altered on a guitar; well...it would be easier to get another guitar; thus, find what works best for you.
7A. The above seven factors work interactively and synergistically. That is, the sum of the any 2 or more of he above parts is actually greater than the sum of the individual parts. A larger nut width creates a greater distance between the 1st and 6th strings as does a longer scale length. Put the two together and for some this may not be fond memories of high school geometry, but the resultant distance of the hypotenuse of the created triangle becomes largest. Simply, the distance from fret 1 sting 1 and string 6 fret 3 (think G7) becomes even longer and is a harder stretch.
8. Foot stools and guitar supports: This can effect angle, tilt, etc as above, but more importantly, it can change the actual height of the guitar from the floor. I find the higher the guitar rests, the more flexibility I have in my left wrist and it is easier to get the proper touching of the left finger tips against the strings and fret board and a very secure anchoring. For me, the most workable height of the foot stool adjustment took quite a bit of time.
Conclusion:
There are many Player Centric strategies to deal with your resistant digits. It takes much patience and persistence to get unruly fingers under control, but can be done. Guitar Centric strategies can be done with a good set up, but most can only be handled at time of guitar selection. The above is a lot to understand and digest. I learned it out of necessity and I have often said, “It is easier just to put the guitar back in the case and in the closet.” Given my stories below, it is easy to understand why no one has offered me a job selling guitars.. I wouldn’t be taking the approach of closing my eyes and saying this guitar is perfect for you or your child.
Case in point, I was looking at nylon strings at a well known big box guitar store. The sales person came to ask me how it felt. I said, “The nut width is to wide, and the scale length probably was too long, and the neck profile terrible.” He did not know I had a mm measure, but said to me, “Well let me have our tech look at in and see what he can do.” I politely said, “No thanks, he would need to get out a saw, chisel, and some sand paper to handle this.” He looked at me. He had no idea of what I was talking about and I am saying to myself, “And you are selling guitars!!??”
It is not necessary to know all this information as I do, but it is important to refer to it when buying an instrument. This reminds me of the story of the carpenter who no matter how many times he cut the board, it was never long enough. You wouldn’t buy shoes that were the wrong size especially if you have medical condition with your feet. Some guitar adjustments can be made after the fact, sometimes you can over time adjust to the dimensions of the guitar, but at least next time, take your time before selecting a guitar and spending your hard earned money. Much like trying out shoes in the store, it is hard to absolutely know how well they fit in a few minutes: the same is true for guitars.
A no pun intended Final Note:
Regardless of what any sales person tells you, never, ever, assume you can open the box, take the guitar out of the gig bag or case, and it is ready to play and needs no adjustments or has optimal playability for you rather than some hypothetical person with the one qualification if the instrument comes from a well known and reputable manufacturer or luthier. I know of situations where even after the fact, the retailer will make additional adjustments at no cost.
If you ever go into a guitar store and the sales person is pressuring you, trying to tell you how the guitar is perfect for your eye color, etc..and they do!!...Just start asking questions about the ratio of the tuners, the type of bracing, if the wood is hard or laminate, the thickness and material of the truss rod, the details of the warranty. You don’t have to know the answers; they are supposed to be the experts. I also do some name dropping of some of the “unknown) guitarists who worked with high profile musicians (e.g., Laurence Juber who was lead to Paul Mc Cartney, John Knowles who for 28 years did arrangements, transcriptions, etc. for Chet Atkins) and I have attended their guitar workshops and they have allowed me to play their very expensive made to order signature guitars. Personally, at this point, I think all the Chicagoland retailers have my mug shot by the cash register; they do not want to deal with me. The funniest time was when the sales person asked me to inspect his hands and wanted advice from me!
Be prepared, this is a never ending journey. Even the most accomplished and famous guitarists continually try different strings, set ups, guitar specifications and adjustments, picks, etc. Everyone seemingly is experimenting with different hand, finger, and hand positions. Sooner or later, you will find playing guitar is not static. That is, from day to day the strings change flexibility, hands and fingers are more or less fluid, environment acoustics change, etc. Everyone is looking for the perfect sound, tone, playability, and how and where even perfect fingers land, and you have willing joined the same club.
This is great advice, Marc! Thanks so much for sharing all your wisdom! Has any other student found some of these approaches helpful?
Thanks Marc for your insights. Really appreciate you spending time providing such thought provoking ideas. Obviously you have investigated this issue thoroughly. It really inspired me to find solutions by following your scheme.
SEGOVIA AND SPECIALIZED LUTHIERS.
The journey to find a comfortable nylon string guitar continues to take twists and turns.
My discussions this past weekend have led me to 2 luthiers who specialize in nylon string guitars. One even phoned me after receiving an email I sent Sunday morning. His emails are longer than my dissertations and he can out talk me!
He suggested replacing the existing bridge and saddle with one that has adjustable heights, and or can be wider so the strings can be set farther apart!
He also suggested either using the existing nut and replacing it with a new one the same size, but having the grooves farther apart, and there is not much room to play with, but this would result in the strings being slightly farther apart. Put the 2 together and he said it would be surprising how much "more room" there would be.
What makes this person so credile is his massive internet pressence, his willingness to spend 90 minutes on the phone on a Sunday, and what he said he could do with what might be my last resort of an off the shelf guitar he can make modifications on. More importantly, he has problematic and arthritic hands and is no youngster himself. He sells the popular brands and when I started to tell him the problems with my most recent guitar selection, he went on at length, and told me all the reasons why they exist and it is based upon the structure of the guitar; moreover, even though he has sold those guitars, because of his dissatisfaction with them, and needing to send many back to the manufacturer even before a sale, he at some point, will no longer sell that brand.
He also directed me to look at videos of Segovia. He had massive hands and fingers and were far from being long and slender. Easily, his fingers had 2 to 3 times the diameter of mine and he navigated.
In conclusion, Segovia did not have perfect hands either, and there are 2 more things a specialized luthier can do to alter a guitar for your comfort; though such work does not come cheaply! I also learned, the top rated luthier you can find, if the majority of their work is on Fenders, Les Pauls, etc..they may do wonderful jobs working on a nylon string guitar, but they may not be the best choice... a specialist is really the best!!
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You are welcome..You are not alone...As you can see, I am still finding out more. Segovia's hands look mammoth. When i met Tommy Emmanuel and compared hands, well..his are quite big also, maybe nearly twice the size of mine and his guitar has a 1.71 nut width...it can be done.